the unofficial Cosina-Voigtlander User Community

I'm not fighting it anymore...stopped a couple of days ago and marked the occasion in my new RFF sig : Link-free since September 30, 2007.

It's still frustrating when people abandon rationality for...well, irrationality.

Brian,
A little odd, maybe there have been shifts in approach. Some time back I had no problem referencing my specialist site www.miranda.com and that certainly had some selected commercial links at the time. It's not as if there's a huge market out there for RF equipment and users; the more connections probably the better.
Craig

Oops, too late at night, www.mirandacamera.com
Craig

I really don't understand it. I've read all your reviews (thank you!) and the one thing that struck me was how many favorable mentions of, and links to, CameraQuest you included. If I were Stephen, I'd have plastered links to your site all over the CVUG mailing list, or at least mentioned it favorably once in a while.

When justifying his actions -- to show that you were knowledgeable about the net, which somehow was to suggest your movtives were calculated -- Stephen linked to a posting you'd made with a very valuable suggestion about how to maximize throughput on his site, for which you got no thanks, but only an oddly curt reply from the moderator. I can only conclude that the mailing lists and RFF are very separate in Stephen's mind from Cameraquest, as it would make no sense to attack a loyal customer -- I'd almost say, "a fan." As you've suggested, it seems a very effective way to shoot oneself in the foot.

If no one's mentioned it, the issue simmered on for several days, with several people suggesting that you were in the wrong and a couple defending you. If I understood correctly, someone suggested that perhaps you were thinking of starting a rival C-V dealership -- an odd suggestion, considering that you live on the opposite side of the world. I have to confess, I considered jumping into the debate, and in the end decided it wasn't worth it. I realized that every time I got a CVUG digest my blood pressure went up. So I unsubscribed to all the Cameraquest mailing lists, and I can't say what's transpired there since.

Sadly, what's happened on the net is much like what's happened in American towns. As the commons was left to decay, commercial spaces took their place, and everyone went to the mall instead. The mall is clean, and has lots of nice places to window-shop, and you won't get pestered by panhandlers or pamphleteers. But it's not a public space, and you're there at the owner's whim. There's no true commons on the internet (and there will be even less of one if "internet neutrality" is abolished), so the best one can do is to establish a space where rules that are as close to those of the town square as possible apply. It seems to me that this is just what you're trying to do here -- so thank you.

holmesc21 wrote:

QUOTE:
Oops, too late at night, www.mirandacamera.com :-)
Craig

I hit the first link and thought where the &^%@$ are the cameras?!?!

I think I'm a "special case" or have been singled out since he feels that this website will pull a bunch of traffic from the CV section of his website and since he sells CV stuff it would affect his bottom line. Of course in the long view favorable plugs or references to CQ within the reviews here (which get good search engine traffic) would increase his bottom line. But what do I know about business? I just teach little kids junk & stuff

mjflory wrote:

QUOTE:
I really don't understand it. I've read all your reviews (thank you!) and the one thing that struck me was how many favorable mentions of, and links to, CameraQuest you included. If I were Stephen, I'd have plastered links to your site all over the CVUG mailing list, or at least mentioned it favorably once in a while.

Before now I've had (as a customer) very favorible dealings with him and those were reflected in what I wrote. He is also one of two N. American distributors, so when "researching" prices or availability I would check to see if there were any notes or comments from him on the RFF, CVUG, or his website along with Robert White (U.K. distrib.) and Chiif Cameras (distrib. in SE Asia). My goal is to be as informational as possible.

QUOTE:
When justifying his actions -- to show that you were knowledgeable about the net, which somehow was to suggest your movtives were calculated -- Stephen linked to a posting you'd made with a very valuable suggestion about how to maximize throughput on his site, for which you got no thanks, but only an oddly curt reply from the moderator. I can only conclude that the mailing lists and RFF are very separate in Stephen's mind from Cameraquest, as it would make no sense to attack a loyal customer -- I'd almost say, "a fan." As you've suggested, it seems a very effective way to shoot oneself in the foot.

Yeah, I helped a friend start that site a few years back and it's grown fairly big. It's even involved in various charity projects (like Kids-Klick, which matches photographers with orphans for days out and classes...http://kids-klick.info) and regional cultural exchanges (like Crossing Bridges, which gets photographers together from Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Singapore, etc... together for travel photography and on-site charity work). I may not be Malaysian, but it is something I'm hugely proud to be a part of. That's the wrong example if he's trying to find something to depict me as "shady"

QUOTE:
If no one's mentioned it, the issue simmered on for several days, with several people suggesting that you were in the wrong and a couple defending you. If I understood correctly, someone suggested that perhaps you were thinking of starting a rival C-V dealership -- an odd suggestion, considering that you live on the opposite side of the world. I have to confess, I considered jumping into the debate, and in the end decided it wasn't worth it. I realized that every time I got a CVUG digest my blood pressure went up. So I unsubscribed to all the Cameraquest mailing lists, and I can't say what's transpired there since.

Well, I can import CV stuff directly from Japan, then ship it via ground to my sister in Hawaii. She can warehouse it there until it's ordered at which point she can airmail it to my retired mom in the South Bay, California who can then distribute the items throught the U.S.. Please....

QUOTE:
Sadly, what's happened on the net is much like what's happened in American towns. As the commons was left to decay, commercial spaces took their place, and everyone went to the mall instead. The mall is clean, and has lots of nice places to window-shop, and you won't get pestered by panhandlers or pamphleteers. But it's not a public space, and you're there at the owner's whim. There's no true commons on the internet (and there will be even less of one if "internet neutrality" is abolished), so the best one can do is to establish a space where rules that are as close to those of the town square as possible apply.

I liked the malls until they started enforcing the no skating rule

QUOTE:
It seems to me that this is just what you're trying to do here -- so thank you.

Thanks for the understanding, taking the time to think through everything rationally, and for the other thing